Finding Success with a Fair but Firm Culture

(02:53) Seasonal resets allow for fresh training approaches, addressing both new team dynamics and operational consistency in each reopening cycle.
(05:10) Digital tracking tools streamline training for rotating teams, enabling managers to monitor staff progress and manage schedules across shifts seamlessly.
(08:41) Addressing knowledge gaps in real-time, such as essential safety protocols, is crucial for building a reliable and effective team, especially in high-turnover environments.
(15:49) Integrating digital modules with hands-on training provides a balanced foundation, allowing team members to retain knowledge while practicing skills on-site.
(19:33) Building respect within teams creates stronger buy-in; Carol and Dunadel emphasize that respectful environments outperform fear-based management in retaining staff long-term.
(23:47) Emphasizing individual and collective roles fosters team cohesion, encouraging staff to look out for one another and take responsibility for their workspace.
(28:33) Open-ended and theory-based questions in training sessions challenge team members to think critically, helping managers assess their responses and approach to complex situations.
(29:38) Understanding that each employee learns and operates differently is essential; Carol and Dunadel highlight adapting training to accommodate different learning styles.
(32:16) Focusing on details, from table settings to customer greetings, elevates the guest experience and reflects Georgetown Events’ commitment to quality in every interaction.

• Georgetown Events Hospitality Group Website
• Information Overload: Why Frontline Workers are Quitting & How to Fix It

Evan Melick: Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Wise Tales. Today, I'm thrilled to be joined by both Carol Britt and Dunadel Daryoush, who are from Georgetown Events. [00:01:00] Carol Britt is the Training and Development Manager at Georgetown Events Hospitality Group, based in Washington, D.C. Carol is a Seasonal Manager at Millie's, one of Georgetown Events properties on Nantucket. She splits her time between the two roles. Carol was raised in eastern North Carolina and has lived up and down the east coast. She graduated from Johnson and Wales University with a degree in culinary and food service management and has spent 20 years working in restaurants and yacht clubs, with years of focus in wine and knowledge and employee development.

Dunadel Daryoush is a Regional Operations and Training Director at Georgetown Events Hospitality Group. In his seventh year with the company, Dunadel oversees the company's summer seasonal operations on Nantucket, including a full service restaurant, a market, and two quick serve concepts, as well as robust catering and events division with three food trucks and a bar cart.
Originally from Cleveland, [00:02:00] Dunadel spends winters in Washington, D. C., working alongside Carol with training and development projects across all Georgetown events concepts.

Y'all, welcome to the podcast!

Carol Britt: Thank you.

Dunadel Daryoush: We're excited to be here. Thanks.

Evan Melick: Lots of years of work and service between the two of you, so I would love to get us started. It sounds like both of you have a lot of training and education experience in the hospitality industry in your background. We know training can be very, very time intensive. It is very labor intensive to set up appropriate trainings. How do you integrate that experience of comprehensive training? We need to make sure everybody does what they're supposed to do, right? But we also have the reality of the time constraints, especially since y'all are working in more seasonal sorts of organizations.

You have to onboard people really, really quickly and get them up to proficiency. How does all of that work [00:03:00] with those operational challenges, especially when you have doors about to open and you have a line down the street?

Carol Britt: Dun, you want to take this one?

Dunadel Daryoush: Yeah, I mean, so training is like the age old dilemma, especially in every industry, obviously, especially in hospitality. every year in a seasonal operation, it's a brand new restaurant, for better and for worse. So any bad habits can get kicked out the door when the season closes, but also it means that you have a fresh crop of people that are, very new to the company and also very new to the industry.

We have a very young crew And our operation on Nantucket, which is, what they lack in experience and they make up for it, an eagerness to learn. So they may not know everything there is to know about restaurants and hospitality and names and outs, things like that. they're very hungry and they're very malleable. So these are a lot of students, university aged people, high school aged students, as well on our younger side in the market, places like that. so, for the longest time this is our 15th year, In operation on Nantucket, and, we kind of relied on trickle down training, so whether we would have like a core group of people, [00:04:00] those are our like industry people, our returners, and then they would have them up to speed, and they would let the training and the skills and things like that, that are what makes Millie staff members trickle down through them.

Works with a small staff, not very conducive to a large scale operation and, you know, Carol, what do we have this year? Almost 250 people across the restaurant and the market. Obviously they're not all working at once. So, you know, have some students that are here early, they're leaving early August, they're going to study abroad, things like that.

So we have a lot of revolving door of staff members. We do have our core crew there. They've been with us for a couple of years and they know what's going on. But, even then, you know, things change every year. So having kind of a centralized, what Caroline likes to call a source of truth For things, it's like, hey, if you have a question, look on X, Y, and Z, they will get you squared away, whether it be, hey, talk to Emily, or talk to Matt, and they'll get you set up, or whether it be, a physical resource, or a digital resource, hey, check on, check on the doc, check on Wisetail, and they'll get you set up on, on whatever it is, so, it's very challenging, to say the least, but we every year, try and build systems that [00:05:00] help us. What do you think, Carol?

Carol Britt: Yeah, and it's important, and especially coming into a digital age where we have a lot of students that are used to at this point, working in a digital atmosphere. So it's really important, especially with a rotating door, especially when everyone's not starting at once when you can have 20 people start 1 week and 20 people start the next week and 20 people start the following week.

How do you as a manager keep up with who's done what? And so that digital component becomes extremely important because it helps track, okay, who's done the quizzes? Who's looked at the modules? Who's done this? Because everyone needs to know a base knowledge. And so being able to have that digital footprint and then that digital tracking system, especially when you are onboarding so many people, it does help centralized information for you. And so you can see who's where in their training and who needs to know what, who keeps failing this test on tacos, who just doesn't get tacos, you know, where they might need to go into the kitchen one day and be a food runner and [00:06:00] look at all the tacos, you know, how to change their aspect when they're not getting something.

So really taking that digital aspect and then transforming it into that human aspect.

Dunadel Daryoush: Having a barometer really is so important to like,either be a one, like a dashboard, you can quickly look at something and be like, Hey, okay, Sarah and Sam need to work on X, Y, and Z, or wow, our whole crew is lacking on bourbon knowledge, or wow. And no one knows what your millie's opened.

That's a concern, something like that. So, giving a quick snapshot, obviously this all works hand in hand with on the job training as well, which is a beautiful part of, , You know, being like Carol and I have one foot in the restaurant, in the summertime and seasonal operation, then also one foot on the more structural side of things in the wintertime when we're building these systems and then we're applying them.

I think so much of.larger organizations. you know, you have a crew of people that build and a crew of people that executes, but not always the same person, so having the ability to have someone like, Hey, I'm going to [00:07:00] build this model, build this module, build this quiz, and then I'm going to go into the store tomorrow and see what people think about it.

So much of spreadsheets and computers, whatever. It's like just checking off boxes. And for us especially, especially with Carol's experience, it is so, enlightening to have people that can go in the store and actually, see how things are going.

Carol Britt: Oh, it's also interesting, as you build modules, and then you go in, you operate it, like, I've built out modules, and I've built out quizzes and things, and I've gone in and been like, okay, that's too long, hold on, we gotta open the doors, this is taking way too long, we've overwhelmed them with information, we need to cut this back, and so, understanding that going back to when you have a line out the door, and you gotta open the doors, you know, really getting back to, wait, what's the key things here?

Evan Melick: Oh, I have so many questions, but what you provided was just such a huge breadth of knowledge for sure, but I'm really curious. Because I think a lot of our listeners don't have the, I would argue the luxury, right, of being operators as well as, as [00:08:00] really heavily, involved in the training aspect of things.

And so, Carol, the example you just gave about being able to, Take your training for a test drive in real life is probably uniquely situated to what a lot of our listeners are able to do. And so is there anything that you can share as far as a recommendation on how maybe, Someone might be able to test that out when they don't have the ability to go right into to an organization or into a location or a store and see how it plays out in real time.

What do you think people could do to make sure what they're providing is efficient and effective and timely and gets the results they need?

Carol Britt: If you do not have the luxury to go into a store, I mean, unfortunately, I think finding that time, finding a way to go in and do your training program from start to finish with someone new in the company,And someone very green in the company, [00:09:00] because I know that guacamole is green. I know the avocados are green.

I know the guacamole is green. I can read that all day, but someone that may have never ate an avocado in their entire life and has never had guacamole or never been exposed to it, they can come in and they can read all these ingredients about guacamole, guacamole, guacamole, but they're not going to get it till they see it.

And you as someone who has done it for years and years and years It can become second nature, Erin, and you'd forget that there are people that just don't know these certain things. You know, and so being able to sit down with somebody who you can say something and think that is a very clear cut, everyone's going to get that statement.

I mean, they're going to go into a training with someone very green. They're gonna be like, what in the world are you talking about? Like, I have no clue. what is guacamole? what is this? and so being able to take it for a test drive from some very green eyes is going to be extremely important because I've sat down and had test [00:10:00] questions and I'm like, how do you not get this?

And they'll be like, I don't know what this is, they, the questions so over their head, they haven't got the context, and for me, with all the context and all the knowledge, it makes sense. For them, it doesn't. And so, it's really, unfortunately, again, you can sit down and do all your training from start to finish, but you have all the context, you have all the knowledge, you have all the background.

If it's someone who just graduated high school last week, and there's their first job, and it's, yes, it is low tier, it is entry level, it is all of that. There are going to be things that you, they just don't know. the amount of people that I have taught how to sweep a broom.sometimes blows my mind that I have to go into and be like, here, this is actually how you hold a broom and sweep, you know, you would think people would learn that, but they don't.

And so there are, there's always going to be that person that you have to teach how to sweep a broom.

Dunadel Daryoush: A good point. I mean, I find this a lot with Simple tasks where, [00:11:00] one thing that comes to mind is we had a staff member this summer who was filling a car with gas from a gas can. Very unique thing to do at a restaurant are we have a lot going on out there. So, Carol grabbed me and she's like, Hey, so and so is spilling gas all over the ground.

And I was like, well, that's pretty dumb. And I walked out there and I was like, hey man, what are you doing? And he's like, oh, I'm just, I'm trying to do what you asked me to do, put gas in the car, whatever. And he's like, oh, I didn't know it wasn't supposed to leak. I was like, okay, okay, alright, take a step back for a second.

I didn't tell you that it shouldn't leak. That, maybe that's on me. A rational human being would assume that a gas can should not be leaking all over the parking lot. To a point that if you flicked a cigarette butt, you might have a bit of an inferno, So, I was like, okay, some of these things are internal reflections as an operator, as a manager, as someone who builds training programs.

It's okay, what I know, and what's second nature to me, guacamole being green, gas cans should not leak, those are second nature to us. [00:12:00] But can someone who are, who's our target audience, what's the why? Carol and I always talk about, Carol especially tells us, what's the why? what's the project?

What's the why behind this? Why are we building this module or this whatever? It's to do what? To operate the restaurant. Okay. Well, let's get a little more specific, more micro as opposed to macro. We're talking about. can someone open a bottle of wine, or can someone do X, Y, and Z? getting specific as to who we're building something for, because at the end of the day, we know how to sweep, we know how to fill a car with gas, we know how to, we know guacamole is green, but not everyone does.

So especially when, we have a very wide gamut of students that work with us, or, and staff members. Some people that are, 30, 40 years old that have been in the industry for a long time and they get it and whatever, you don't need to tell them twice. But there's a lot of people that are like, wait, how do I wear gloves that are scooping ice cream in the market or folding t shirts the first time?

So, building your programs for someone that is not necessarily yourself. And if you don't have the luxury to go into a store, bouncing ideas off someone that, is your target audience? If you have a significant other, or a child, or someone, hey, does this make sense to you? Obviously this varies by [00:13:00] industry.

The hospitality industry, obviously the target demographic is a little bit wider than, you know, something as specific as, more specialized skills. But,taking yourself out of it for a second. Abbreviation, things like that. you know what that means, but does everyone else know what that means?

No. And maybe you step back and realize that .

Evan Melick: What a compelling story. I think that is a great example, right? You don't think of what not to say or what to say all the time. But that leads me to my next question. It sounds like you use, digital tools for training. Great. Fantastic. Wonderful. But also you offer that combination of real life in person experiences, whether it's the green guacamole example or Here's how to appropriately sweep or fill gas into a vehicle.

How do you determine what is that sort of baseline foundation that you do digitally versus what is more appropriately trained either shoulder to shoulder [00:14:00] or in person or in, quite honestly, in the store itself?

Carol Britt: Yeah, we have a good baseline. So our handbook is 1 of those. Anything that's like rules, anything that's more black and white, there is no. There isn't multiple answers to this. this is our policy, that is going to be black and white. our menu, our ingredients, ingredients are the same no matter what.

There is no room for human interpretation there. this goes into the guacamole. this is the 10 ingredients. This is what it is. those are going to be digital because those are never going to be altered. And if they are altered, we're going to alter it because that's going to be our new source of truth.

So, and so all of that is going to be our baseline where we as, a seasonal place, you know, send out our baseline. Like, hey, need you to know the menu. I will teach you how to open a bottle of wine in person because I mean, I can send you a YouTube video. Sure. I can send you a video of myself.

Sure. But, you know, that's one of those things that you need to practice hands on again. I can send you out a video. And you can get the gist of [00:15:00] it, but then we'll practice it in person. And so, scooping ice cream is one of those things in our market that we are very specific on how to scoop ice cream.

And we have videos that send out, again, you're going to watch a video or two on how to scoop ice cream. But then when you get in, you're also going to have to show me. How to scoop ice cream, and we're going to correct the technique. and we're going to perfect the technique, and we're going to make sure you understand the technique.

So again, having those baseline is things that are a little bit more clear cut. This is what this is, and then I need you to know that and watch these and do this, and then when you get in our in person training, it's going to take that information and go to the next level.

Dunadel Daryoush: Yeah, that's a great way to put it, I think, Carol. There's an interesting point there in hours of operation, what day we're open, what our specials are, things like that. That's all. There's no need to have a meeting about that. Hey, here's the posted notes, read it, synthesize it, come to work knowing that information, then we'll work with it.

For example, when we onboard all of our staff members, again, the 250 that we [00:16:00] had, probably had 35 people starting the first week, and then we had, hey, it's 35 people, here's your link to join our online training platform. Please familiarize yourself with the first, three modules, the handbook, X, Y, and Z.

And then show up to work having completed that. That way, Carol and I can look at that and go, okay, these 35 people that are already with us in this room, they at least have said that they've read and understood these things. Great. So then we can then kind of hold people, whether it be holding people accountable, but also being like, great, I don't need to go over the address of the restaurant.

They got that. Okay. Hopefully. and then we can go from there or, but there's certain things, vibe, hospitality, lights, and music. Those things obviously cannot be taught. through a digital medium as easily as they can be taught in person. Now, Carol and I could record a video of ourselves talking about it and put it up on the, on our platform, and then people have to mark themselves that having watched it, and that is one way of doing it.

Being in the room with someone, whether it be opening a bottle of wine, whether it be interacting with a guest, whether it be how to clear a plate off a table, or how to drop food [00:17:00] on a table, those are all things that are done really well in person. Now, interestingly enough, before Carol and I came up In April of this year, we just started doing, video series for our quick service concept called Jetties.

It's a sandwich shop, soups, salads, sandwiches. There's five locations in the D. C. area. generally quick service, a lot of delivery, catering, things like that, but there's no traditional table service. You know, so you order at a counter. Order online, sit wherever you like, or take it with you. a big thing we were having there,that's 20 years of that location being open, those locations being open, but a big thing we run into there is, simple hospitality at the door.

Hi, welcome to Soap, welcome to Jetty's. How can I help you? So Caroline started filming videos because while there's two of us and we can go around to every single store and we were going around every single store, you know, you can't, Capture every single staff member in one go, there might be the four people that are working on Mondays and you miss the Tuesday crew and the Wednesday crews there and whatever and so on and so forth.

And we were relying a little bit on our trickle down training there where, hey, managers and our lead cashiers, we're going to get you guys set up on how we do things, how we say hello, [00:18:00] how we say my, like the Chick fil a example, my pleasure type thing, how we say those kinds of things.

And then you guys, be the conduit to everyone else. But recording the videos allowed us to have a digital version of something that was traditionally not easy to be done digitally, which was great. another great example of that is, hey, please set up the server station the right way.

Okay, well that's ambiguous. What does that mean? Well, I can show one person I keep, I can keep showing people, or I can take a picture of it and post it on our training platform and say, Hey, before you leave at night, please consult. on the app, on the website, on the whatever, how this station should look.

If it doesn't look like that, then please make it look like that, and then you're able to go home, or whatever it is. So that's another example of something that instead of Carol and myself going to every single person every single night being like, oh, hot sauce should be this way, and wipe that, and wipe this, hey guys, pull up the list, pull up the picture online, look at that, and then you're good to go.

So, it is a very fine balance of what can be done online, what can be done in person, and how they can work hand in hand [00:19:00]

Evan Melick: So you've mentioned, Dun, the trickle down training a few times, which I think is a great name for that. I would imagine one of the things that's required in order to make that an effective training protocol is buy in, right? And so you have to have levels of buy in at those layers that are going to be training.

Those in the store or those to watch the videos or anything that requires an ongoing really connection between the people who know the things and the people who need to know the things. What are some [00:20:00] strategies that you have found effective in garnering buy in, whether it's at the manager level or even some of those more senior repeat Seasonal employees.

What does buy in look like for you and how do you do it?

Dunadel Daryoush: I love that question because we talk about this all the time in our pre ship meetings on, what is the why? Obviously, first and foremost, people are at a job to earn an income, earn a living, right? So that's one of the whys, okay? And one of the ways to get by. But that's not always the most effective.

And what I've found, is the kind of the like Beard and loved or respected model, right? If people like or love you, then they may listen to you because, oh, that's my friend. That's my so and so, that's my boss, but also someone I like, and I'll listen to them because, I like them and whatever.
That's one way to get people to buy in. Whether people fear you is another way to get people to buy in, but it's not effective anywhere nearly, you know, Having a culture of fear, it's a very toxic environment that I'm sure we've all worked in environments like that and it's not conducive to people doing their best work, right?

But that is one [00:21:00] method that a lot of places, unfortunately, still in the restaurant industry, that they employ that way of kind of scaring people straight or whatever, right? And the last way, which is what, I think and Carol thinks are the best way to do it is to get people to respect you, right?

So, being firm but fair, holding people accountable to standards, managing expectations. Hey, here's what I'm going to ask of you. Here's your job description as a host or as a food runner, as a busser. I am going to ask you to do these things. There may be a few things that fall outside of this job description, and we will discuss those things when those, when that bridge comes, whether it be filling a car with gas or whatever it is.

Those are things that are maybe not be written black and white, but we'll talk about it when they come up, right? and showing people that, hey, here's the job, here's what you're making, being very transparent about earnings and pay. there's an old adage, you can mess a lot of things, but you can't mess people's money.

And that's so, so true And the simple level of respect, whether it be spelling people's names right, or, calling them the right name, or, knowing a little bit about them, right? Getting buy in that way, and getting people to respect your team and the company. At Millie's, we say, [00:22:00] this is our 15th year of operation.

Again, there's been 15 years, 15 generations of staff members that have come before us that have worn Millie's on their shirt, right? So. It's not just about you and me and the 2024 team. It's about building upon a mantle that's been given to us, and it's our chance to pass it on, right? Now, you don't have to get as esoteric about it as that sometimes, but just making people care about the team, you know? And especially on a place like Nantucket, where a lot of staff members don't necessarily, or they're not, they're kind of like, Oh, my mom's letting me get a job, or whatever, like, I'm here. This is kind of like reverse summer camp. we watch the kids. We watch the kids. And we pay the kids, right? So it's an interesting dilemma to be in, right?

But getting people to care about the group as a unit, as a, hey, I don't want to leave the service station like a mess for tomorrow because A. chances are it's me coming tomorrow, but also B. my friend tomorrow is working and I don't want to, I don't want them to look at me differently because I left it a mess or whatever.

It's harder in a year round operation to find that, but it's still possible through clear communication, [00:23:00] through concise, managing of expectations, and through just simple respect given both ways gets people to buy into the brand. and there's definitely times where it's not possible where, hey, you know what, this person, maybe it's not their cup of tea.

They're not really buying the team or whatever, and that, that comes and goes, and that's the nature of, every industry ever, not just restaurants, not just hospitality, but given that we are such a people business, having a cohesive unit, whether it be manager to staff member or staff member to staff member or staff member to guest, is so crucial to what we try and do at Millie's and especially at Georgetown events to, to foster an environment that's firm but fair, that people want to come to work at, that people are excited to come to work at, and people can make a good living.

Carol Britt: And one of the things with buy in also that we struggle with a little bit, It was going into our jetty at one of our other locations, jetties, and buying and our managers there. we've had people that have been with our company 20 years and they've been doing the same way for 20 years and it's like, okay, we're moving our training and things onto a digital aspect, and so [00:24:00] we know they're brought into the company.

We know they're brought into what they're doing, but now we have to have them to buy into a new way. and so, and that's really selling the longevity and the future. And how is this going to, while getting this started, may take a little bit more effort out of them for another week or two or a month, but down the road this is ultimately going to hopefully make their lives easier.

Hopefully make the job a little more clear. Hopefully make training a little bit easier where if anything that they were struggling with in the past, how can we make this a better product for you? And so it's really listening to that feedback. And that's going to be one of the bigger things on that buy in is understanding that feedback of how do we not make this harder, especially for someone that's been with their company for so long and so used to doing something some way and also understanding it's going to take time.

They're not going to get it the first day. They're not going to get it the first week, and you're going to have to follow up, and you're going to have to follow up, and you're going to have to follow up again. and really continue to sell that [00:25:00] long term picture for them until it will finally come around.

Evan Melick: So I think that's super interesting, right? It sounds like it's a combination between what's the why, which y'all have said several times during this conversation, is really being clear. about what is the why, but also coupled with what's in it for me. Because at the end of the day, people want to understand, Carol, to your point about longevity and selling a future vision, they want to understand how do I fit with that, right?

How does this culture make me enjoy my day job better? Yes, I know I'm getting a paycheck, but there are other places I could get a paycheck, so why do I stay here? Why do I stay with Jetties or Millies or whatever that looks like? For 20 years, we have recently, Wisetail commissioned a study and one of the really interesting things that we found in this study was, it was a, a survey we presented to frontline workers, [00:26:00] is that people actually do want to stay with organizations.

Now, it needs to fit what they want and the culture that they desire and all of the things that go into making a meaningful workplace. Thank you. But we read articles a lot and we hear all the things that, the up and coming generations, they're disloyal. They have, they don't want to stay with places.

Turns out that our research has shown they actually do want to stay with places. And it, so it sounds like this fair but firm culture that you all are striving to develop is an area and an opportunity where you do have people who have stayed for long term. And I guess that leads me into my next question is.

We're all different in how we learn, how we absorb information, what we do on the day to keep ourselves growing. How does that impact how you approach training and what you do on a day to day basis? Especially thinking about that change management piece, Carol, like you mentioned, moving into a digital era when things used to [00:27:00] be more shoulder to shoulder.

Carol Britt: Yeah, so you have to still have that human aspect of it. We can go as digital as we want, and we can put everything on a digital platform, but there's going to be a place, especially in hospitality, where your job is to face people It is to make critical decisions.
It is to make decisions that can have more than one right outcome. and so that human aspect of training is going to be so important. You know, I mean, in the past, I've had an employee who had extreme test anxiety, where we have a final test you have to take before you pass.and she was like, I'm going to fail.

I'm going to fail. She's in the office crying. I'm going to fail. I can't take tests. I can't take tests. And I said, I asked a couple of questions that I know on the test and she gives me the answers verbally and like, no big deal. I'm like, girl, you've got this. You know this. I'm like, come on, And so again, you're going to have, well, you have a digital thing where I need you to pass this test because this is how we do this.[00:28:00]

But they also have test anxiety, and then you have kids that who don't know things and you go in and pass a test and make it through the system. And you're like, wait, you still don't know guacamole is green. Like, how did you yes, you passed enough to get through it. And so it's never going to replace that human aspect.

Dunadel Daryoush: Of you still need to have that 1 on 1 training. You still need to spend time with your employees. You still need to evaluate your employees yourself. and 1 of the things we do with our training is we do a lot of open ended questions. A lot of theory questions, where, and one of our training things it, at the end of each day, you sit down and.

Carol Britt: You're asked questions and you have to give a verbal response where it's not a yes or no, A, B, C, D, true or false thing. It's like, hey, especially when it comes to managers, when you're training new managers, mean, a great theory question is, what would you do if X employees always ten minutes late?

How do you handle that? And because there's a lot of different ways to handle it and depending, and there could be a lot of [00:29:00] multiple, correct answers, and so again, it's big theory questions. It's open ended questions. It's how do you because the way done handle some things and the way I handle some things are on two different levels. But they can both be right. So, by all means, and understanding, but also looking at, everyone's different. Every, every employee is different. Everyone learns different. Everyone operates different. really understanding that. You have to know your employee.

You have to get to know them. we have servers in, I've had servers in every property that they operate differently. I have one server at Millie's here who hates when I run her checkouts at the end of this, when, when I run, I swipe the credit cards on her tables. She hates it. Like, it throws her, like, in her scheme of her operating and managing multiple tables, she needs to check off that she swiped that credit card.

That's one of her things. She needs to swipe off the, she [00:30:00] swiped that credit card. I have other ones. I'm like, hey, I'm going to run the check on table 22. Okay, great. Thanks. No big deal. They got it. You know, they, they, and so understanding that what is helping one person can be hindering another.the same thing as like picking up drinks.

I've had a server in other restaurants who they needed to run their drinks from the bar because again, that was a check mark. They needed to Mark off in their head to digitally keep themselves on track for the rest of the night. And I had other servers they could run drinks for and that would be a help.

So, understanding that there are people that are gonna sit down and they're gonna read that guacamole is green and they're gonna get it. And then you're gonna have people that you're gonna have to walk into the kitchen, you're gonna have to show them the avocado, you're gonna have to show them every individual ingredient, then you're gonna have to show them the process of making it, and then you're gonna have to show them the final product, and then they're finally gonna get it. So, understanding that both ways is right. I can, someone can sit down and read the avocado is green, and these go in, and they understand it, and they read the process, and they got it. They've got that mental image, and you've [00:31:00] got someone that needs to go in and actually make it before they get it.

And so, and the only way you're gonna do that is. it's hands on. That is human. That is you being there. That is you being present. That is you also training managers to also understand that concept that just because you give someone something to read and they don't get it doesn't mean there's not another way to do it.

And so having several different things in your wheelhouse and understanding that. Some people might need another day of training, I've had people that I'm like, okay, you've got this after three shifts of training, you know what you're doing. And then you got other people that they need seven to eight shifts of training, and it might be comfort level.

It might be, they need more time to talk about it. They might be, they don't know the product knowledge, you know, they're again, and it's how do you evaluate your people throughout it. and really understand where. That person is as a person, [00:32:00] individual.

Dunadel Daryoush: It's kind of like in school where you have auditory and visual and kinesthetic learners. it's the same in, in, every aspect of life, obviously. I think also in the post COVID world, we have a lot of what I call sign fatigue. So there were so many signs, this, that, don't do this, do that.
And people were just like, If they kind of see them, they their eyes glaze over. So you can put up a sign that says no phones on shift and laminate it and put it on the wall and staple it or however you want to do it. People are still going to be on their phones at work, right? So you can't just say, well, I put the sign up.

Well, I don't know. Well, that's all my job's done. It's no, your job is to, keep training the tracks and also Operate within the lines that we have drawn, right? So the lines can be redrawn, which is the beautiful thing about a dynamic training platform. And also, an ever evolving system.
there's no, well, that's how we've always done it. That's not a good example. That's a good answer. You know what, again, what's the why, right? but there's also times where it's okay. [00:33:00] People are not getting this version of it. They watch the video, they've read something. How do I go in hands on and show them something?

That's a great way to get buy in too because if you see, Hey, I'm not going to ask as a manager you to do anything that I would not do first myself. And I'll show you how to do it myself, whether it be scrubbing the toilet, whether it be running food, whether it be making guacamole, whatever it is, Hey, I will show you how to do it.

Learn one, teach one, do one. If you get people to see you do it. And then they're like, okay, great, I got it. And then they learn how to do it, and then eventually they're doing it, and they're teaching other people to do it. It's that cycle, So,it's knowing that, certain people can be pushed more than other people.

Certain servers can be held more accountable than other ones, because, hey, Maybe some people, no matter how simple the conversation is, maybe they cry and that happens, right? So knowing, okay, how do I handle this person in a 15 minute breathers person need to go sit in the office for a second or have a glass of water or, whatever it is, knowing a little bit about everybody and knowing that one size doesn't fit all, you can't just use the same techniques and the same tactics on everybody.

And [00:34:00] that's also a beautiful thing about this platform, about platforms in general, is that. hey, if you're really an auditory person, great, you know, we actually recorded a whole thing on this. You can listen to it, you can watch, you can treat it like a podcast, however you want to do it. and that's great.

That might work for some people. Or, hey, you know what? If you're more of a hands on person, we're going to do, 9 to 10 a. m., we're doing a little wine class. and we're going to talk about how to open a wine, how to smell a wine, things like that, and we can go over it in person. So, so, knowing, Each individual person is different, what makes this business beautiful, is that there's not just a bunch of robots, a bunch of cookie cutter people that are all getting the same thing done.

Everyone is unique. I like to always say, we hired everyone at this establishment, wherever it is, for a reason. Everyone brings something unique to the table, whether it be humor or skill or whatever it is, but it works together like a symphony orchestra. Everyone plays a part, right? And without the whole part working together in tandem, it might not work together.

It might work without someone, it might just be a little bit harder. But we all work together, we all play a part.

Evan Melick: I really like those responses and I'm just going to highlight something, Dun, that you said earlier in [00:35:00] the conversation. That you're in the people business. Right? And so I would say. All of this is just about people, and we couldn't do it without people, and so knowing those people at their core, I think, is critical to what we do every single day.

So, I'm going to close us off with one last question. This is, maybe a little bit from left field. something I like to ask all of our guests before we sign off. If you were to design your own bumper sticker, what would it say and why? 

Carol Britt: Mine would say, we are all human, so I'm going to mess up. It's something I say at LineUp a lot, that I will mess up. I mean, I think every schedule I put out, something has gone wrong with somebody. I'm like, you need to communicate with me. And I will communicate with you, but that does not mean that I am going to miss a text message.

I am going to miss an email. I am going to miss [00:36:00] a calendar on the date. We are all human. Every single one of us, we're going to mess up. We're going to say the wrong thing at the host stand. We're going to say the wrong thing at the table. We're going to hear the wrong beer. We're going to, every one of us is going to mess up. What defines us is how we handle it once we mess up.

Evan Melick: That sums everything that we've talked about into such a nice, neat bow. That it's just people, right? We're just doing our human things. That's a great one.

Dunadel Daryoush: I think my bumper sticker would just say 5%. It would be the number five and the percent sign. Because so much of everything in reality is the 5%, that's the final detail. So you're building a house, for example. The roof, the structure, the foundation, all that stuff is all obviously crucial to what we do. But imagine giving up when it comes to the light switches, or the switch plates, or the finishing, the small details, the soft [00:37:00] skills.

In restaurants, that would be lights, the music, the little things. Imagine having a handwritten sign instead of a nicely typed sign on a nice printed waterproof paper. Imagine giving up when on, you know, whether it be on your online ordering platform and you have a spelling error or something like that.

That happens, obviously, it's inheritance, right? Like Carol said, it's the human nature, right? But taking time to double check what you've put out is. So crucial, just like what Carol said in that mistakes happen, realizing them and then correcting them is so, so important, which is always those go hand in hand, right?

No one is perfect. The small details are what can separate the best. mediocrity from, being, going above and beyond and making a memorable experience. Um,there's been generations of people and COVID really again, back to COVID unfortunately, it made mediocrity so acceptable. It's Hey, I'm just here, you know, like you're lucky I'm just here.

You're like, imagine calling into an airline. It's like the fact that you got ahold of someone, [00:38:00] you're like, wow, I hit the lottery getting ahold of someone, you know? And they're like, listen, man, I can't help you. You're like, what, how can you help me? Like, what, this is like your job. This is what you're supposed to be helping me with.

And there's obviously some exceptions to that, but it's also like being aware of the little details that can set one place apart from another place. If you have two taco places across the street from each other, what's going to differentiate them? Maybe one's got white queso and one's got yellow queso, but like the 5 percent is what it comes down to in every aspect of life.

Evan Melick: I think that is, Oh my gosh, that is such a compelling part of our human existence, right? Is defy expectations with that final five percent every time we're able to. thank you. Thank you both so much. Carol, Dunadel, this has been an amazing conversation and I'm very, very excited to have had you.

It's been an honor and a privilege to host you on Wise Tales today and, thank you again and we will definitely be talking soon.

Dunadel Daryoush: Thanks guys.